How to know if I'm insured on the job

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:02 pm
So I've read most of the threads on Car Insurance on this forum, and I've mostly drawn the conclusion that I need to ask my insurance provider. Well, they don't know that I deliver pizzas, and I'm afraid that even if I inquire about needing to be insured if I'm delivering pizzas they will want to stop insuring me and that most company's will do the same.

So how can I go about finding if Colorado requires Pizza Hut to insure me (I'd assume they wouldn't) if I got in an accident. Should I directly ask my Head Manager? Should I call my insurance company and word it like I'm thinking about getting a pizza delivery job?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:18 pm
Pizza Hut insures themselves, not you.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:32 pm
thepizzaman wrote:So I've read most of the threads on Car Insurance on this forum, and I've mostly drawn the conclusion that I need to ask my insurance provider. Well, they don't know that I deliver pizzas, and I'm afraid that even if I inquire about needing to be insured if I'm delivering pizzas they will want to stop insuring me and that most company's will do the same.

So how can I go about finding if Colorado requires Pizza Hut to insure me (I'd assume they wouldn't) if I got in an accident. Should I directly ask my Head Manager? Should I call my insurance company and word it like I'm thinking about getting a pizza delivery job?


Just go ahead and get a quote for business insurance. PH only covers insurance to cover their own asses.

You could always approach them and say that you were looking at getting a part time job and was curious if you needed to get "business insurance" if your part time job required you to use your own car every once in a while. Do not mention pizza delivery, if you can keep from doing it. They might even buck with business insurance if its for delivery.

Of course, you could always lie about your job and hope they don't find out if you have an accident while on the clock.

Just go for business insurance. Its not that much higher than standard insurance. Mine runs $106 a month for a 2008 Focus. And I am completely covered on my job. Standard insurance was around $85 a month.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:26 am
What PD2 said above. You could also just call around to some of the other agents of the insurance you currently have. My agent for State Farm is the one I've been using for nearly 15 years and is in Redmond, WA; but I live and work in Kirkland, WA. I could conceivably contact one of the 3 Kirkland State Farm agents and without giving my name ask them if my personal insurance policy would cover me if I had State Farm but I used my vehicle for delivering pizza.

I never needed to do that though, I kind of gamed the system until I purchased my new vehicle, I also purchased commercial insurance through Progressive (WAY too fucking expensive). But then when I sat down with my State Farm rep to discuss unrelated insurance needs I let slip that I had commercial insurance with Progressive and that I was delivery pizza, he informed me that they had business level insurance that would cover me... and the cost difference was orders of magnitude better. So I switched back to State Farm to insure all my vehicles... Personal auto, business auto, and renters insurance.

You don't need to give your name when you ask questions... but you'll never know the answer unless you ask.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:32 am
PD2 wrote:Just go for business insurance. Its not that much higher than standard insurance. Mine runs $106 a month for a 2008 Focus. And I am completely covered on my job. Standard insurance was around $85 a month.

I just re-read this... I had my agent run the numbers and my business insurance premium, for the specific coverages I have, are lower than what I would be charged for personal insurance at the same levels of coverages.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:26 am
thepizzaman wrote:How to know if I'm insured on the job


Have you read your policy? Seriously. Your insurance policy is a contract and what it says matters. You can ask you insurance company, but what they say on the phone does not matter at all. All that matters is what is in the contract you and they agreed to.

Does your policy say that you are covered only for 'personal' use only and that no 'business' use or 'commercial' use is covered?

If you read your policy and still do not understand what exactly you are covered for, then you need to call your insurer and ask them to do TWO things: Ask if you are covered while delivering pizza, and then have them guide you to the EXACT verbiage in the contract that supports that! If they say you are NOT covered you need to do the same thing... Ask them exactly which lines in the CONTRACT say that you are not covered.

If they say that you are not covered, then ask WHY! Is it because of State law? Is it because of their own companies policy?

Bottom line is that YOU need to understand and KNOW if you are covered for an accident while on the job. The very first place to find out is by READING your current insurance policy and then asking questions from there if you still do not understand. Merely asking your agent without attempting to learn the laws of your state and the actual coverage in your policy opens you up to an uninformed or greedy agent selling you coverage you don't need, or telling you that you are covered when in fact you are not.

The bottom line is that what your policy says in writing is the only thing that counts.
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:02 am
I actually glad this topic was brought up again. It's one of the toughest questions I have ever tried to pin down an answer to, but I think I finally found the best answers yet. It is still a complicated answer, and you still need to read your policy, AND ask your insurance company for verification if you have a doubt, but the two following articles do a great job of explaining if Pizza Delivery is covered under a Personal Automobile Policy or "PAP"

The key to this is understanding what a “public or livery conveyance” is and if "pizza delivery" is covered under that definition or not.

Read the next two articles on the topic.
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:12 am
Frequently Asked Questions
Personal Insurance: Auto Insurance
Exclusions

Does my Personal Auto Policy exclude "business" use?

http://www.americaninsuranceid.com/faq/personal-insurance/auto-insurance/does-my-personal-auto-policy-exclude-business-use

Yes, but only very specific types of business use are excluded in the Personal Auto Policy (PAP).

Even though your Personal Auto Policy appears to exclude all business use (except farming and ranching), the exclusion does not apply to “private passenger autos, pickups, motorhomes and vans, or trailers used with one of these vehicles”. So, using one of these type vehicles in your own business or in the business of your employer is not excluded except in three very specific cases:

Your PAP excludes all coverage - liability, uninsured / underinsured motorist, medical payments and physical damage - if your vehicle is:

  • Used as a public or livery conveyance. (the public pickup and delivery of: people - like a taxi cab, limo or shuttle; or goods - like a public delivery or freight company)
  • Used in the business of selling, repairing, servicing, storing, or parking vehicles (like auto dealers, auto repair and lube shops, parking garages and valet services). This is meant to exclude coverage on customer’s vehicles you may drive in the course of business. It does not exclude your own vehicles that are “your covered autos”.

    NOTE – this following new exclusion appears in some, but not all, PAP policies…

  • Used for the pickup or delivery of newspapers or magazines, food (like pizza or other food) or any products for the purpose of compensation. This exclusion does not apply to delivery that is incidental to the insured’s business (defined as your trade, profession or occupation).

So, except for these specific exclusions, using your own vehicle in the course of your employment is not excluded. Here are some examples of use that would NOT be excluded…

    1. Salesperson who drives to various customer and prospect locations to show, demonstrate, or deliver their products (a product not excluded in the policy).
    2. Building contractor who picks up supplies and delivers them to his job sites.
    3. Home health or social worker who drives to clients homes.
    4. Employee who uses their own vehicle to pick up the mail or take the deposit to the bank.
ACCEPTABLE RISKS – VS – EXCLUSION: Even if not specifically excluded, how you use your vehicle may not be an acceptable risk to the insurance company under a PAP. The insurance company may charge additional premium for certain “business use” or refuse to insure or cancel policies when the use presents too much risk. In these cases a commercial auto policy may be the best solution to your coverage needs.
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:27 am
Does the ISO Personal Auto Policy Cover Pizza Delivery?

http://www.whitecoinsurance.com/does-th ... -delivery/

Posted Feb 13 2013 by ayasha

Does your personal auto policy cover business use? The below article from the Independent Insurance Agents & Brokers of America explains the problems that arise under personal auto policies for vehicles that are hired for a fee.

Author: Bill Wilson

After years of instructing personal auto seminars, probably the question that comes up most often (except, perhaps, for rental car issues) is whether or not the ISO PAP covers claims that arise out of the use of a personal auto for pizza delivery. Here’s my opinion (along with that of several courts).

According to the 2005 ISO Personal Auto Policy, there is no coverage for an insured’s ownership or operation of a vehicle while it is being used as a public or livery conveyance, except that the exclusion does not apply to a share-the-expense car pool. The expressed intent of the policy drafters (via 1989 ISO filing memorandum) is that this exclusion is designed to preclude coverage for vehicles available for hire to the general public for the transportation of people or cargo (e.g., taxis, sight-seeing vans, package delivery services, etc.).

The wording of this exclusion in the 1986 ISO Personal Auto Policy made it applicable to the transportation of “persons or property for a fee,” but it was determined that the wording in that policy edition was being more restrictively applied than intended by the policy drafters. Therefore, in the 1989 ISO Personal Auto Policy, ISO reverted to the “public or livery conveyance” language of prior forms (e.g., the non-simplified Family Auto Policy) which had been extensively adjudicated to mean “a vehicle held indiscriminately for hire to the general public.”

This exclusion presents “gray” areas as to coverage for certain activities such as newspaper deliveries, rural mail carriers (for subrogation claims under the Federal Tort Claims Act), home products sales reps (e.g., Avon, Amway, etc.), and so forth. For example, a continuing controversy is whether or not the exclusion applies to “pizza delivery.” One court, in interpreting the more restrictive “transporting persons or property for a fee” exclusion, ruled that the exclusion did not apply to an employee using his own auto in the course of employment, largely because the delivery charge did not directly benefit the insured (United Services Automobile Association v. Couch, Tennessee Court of Appeals, 1982).

[comment by gregster - USAA is my insurance company]

At least two other state courts (and Supreme Courts at that) have also found coverage under the PAP for pizza delivery: (1) USF&G v. Lightning Rod Mutual Ins. Co., Ohio Supreme Court, 1997, and (2) Pizza, Inc. v. AutomRPMotive Cas. Ins., Louisiana Supreme Court, 1992. In addition, other courts holding the exclusion to be ambiguous include Progressive Cas. Ins. Co. v. Metcalf, 501 N.W.2d 690 (Minn. Ct. App. 1993), Pizza Hut of Am., Inc. v. W. Gen. Ins. Co., 36 Ark. App. 16, 816 S.W.2d 638 (Ark. Ct. App. 1991), and Cincinnati Ins. Co. v. W. Am. Ins. Co., 112 F. Supp. 2d 718 (D. Ill. 2000). The first two of these three cases involved pizza delivery and the last mail delivery.

One Pennsylvania court found that the “carrying persons or property for a fee” exclusion DID bar recovery, though the dissenting opinion makes a compelling argument that the court was mistaken, given the body of case law on this exclusion around the country.

[Note: Many of these court cases can be accessed at http://www.lexisone.com. This service is free, but you'll need to get an ID and password.]

In recognition of the likelihood that the unendorsed policy covers such use, at least one company has addressed this issue by introducing a mandatory “Food Delivery Exclusion” endorsement that can be removed, on a case-by-case basis, for a premium surcharge. When in doubt, clarify the company’s claims position in advance.

In addition, comparison of this exclusion with the Insuring Agreement seems to indicate that the exclusion may not be as broad as usually interpreted. The insuring agreement covers the “ownership, maintenance or use” of any auto by “you” or “family members” and the “use” of “your covered auto” by other persons. This exclusion, however, applies only to “ownership or operation…while” the vehicle is being used as a public or livery conveyance. Therefore, the exclusion does not apply while the vehicle is not being used as a public or livery conveyance. And, even while being used as such, “you” and “family members” would be covered for maintenance of the vehicle, plus any “use” not involving “operation” of the auto.
Source: Independent Insurance Agents and Brokers of America, Inc.
http://www.independentagent.com/Educati ... Pizza.aspx
Copyright © 2013 Independent Insurance Agents & Brokers of America, Inc
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

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