Highest and lowest paying occupations, May 2011

User avatar
Master Driver
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Where do you work?:
Papa John's franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
2010 Ford Fusion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:02 pm
Employment and wages for the highest and lowest paying occupations, May 2011

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/high_paying_occs.htm

Image
Occupations with the highest median wage, May 2011

Image
Occupations with the lowest median wages, May 2011
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

Image

makeline/cook
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:37 pm

Where do you work?:
Indy 4
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
compact car
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:58 pm
I've had most of the jobs on the bottom list, and none of the jobs on the top list. :(
Anything written by me on this forum may be false and inaccurate. Consider it all to be for entertainment purposes.
User avatar
General Manager
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:26 am

Where do you work?:
late night indy
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
full size sedan
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:36 am
I understand this is a barometer of 'wage', but I assume gaming dealers, and bartenders both typically make significantly more than what is indicated on this list. Both professions see a lot of (undocumented) cash tips. I've seen bartenders in L.A. routinely make 400-500 dollars on a weekend shift. I'm guessing it's the same in other large city club scenes (?)
User avatar
Master Driver
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Where do you work?:
Papa John's franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
2010 Ford Fusion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Babe Ruth wrote:I've seen bartenders in L.A. routinely make 400-500 dollars on a weekend shift.


And for every one of them that does, there are likely 10 more that work in hole in the wall places that are barely eking it out.

Those incomes listed are the 'median' wages, not highest.

median wage

An occupational median wage estimate is the boundary between the highest paid 50 percent and the lowest paid 50 percent of workers
http://www.bls.gov/bls/glossary.htm
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

Image
User avatar
General Manager
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:26 am

Where do you work?:
late night indy
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
full size sedan
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:08 am
gregster wrote:
Babe Ruth wrote:I've seen bartenders in L.A. routinely make 400-500 dollars on a weekend shift.


And for every one of them that does, there are likely 10 more that work in hole in the wall places that are barely eking it out.

Those incomes listed are the 'median' wages, not highest.

median wage

An occupational median wage estimate is the boundary between the highest paid 50 percent and the lowest paid 50 percent of workers
http://www.bls.gov/bls/glossary.htm

I understand the meaning of median.. I was commenting that the bartending profession is heavy on undocumented cash tips. So even tho' their median wage is low, this kind of list gives an inaccurate impression that bartending is ultimately the equivalent of an inflexibly low paying position (like cashiering & dishwashing).
A more comprehensive look at bartending & casino dealing earnings, (tips + wage) would move both professions off this list. Your assertion is that 10 to 1 bartenders are 'eking it out'. c'mon..
I can already see that anyone on this site who says something you disagree with, gets patronized like they're stupid.. :? damn.
User avatar
Master Driver
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Where do you work?:
Papa John's franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
2010 Ford Fusion
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:36 am
Well, I was just sharing my opinion, but hey, if you feel it's wrong then please, by all means show me how I am.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong about ANYTHING that I post! Really! If I am never proven wrong. then I never learn anything new in a disagreement.

I like both you and elric because both of you will speak up and disagree with me when differences come up. Please keep doing so. I like to be kept on my toes so to speak. Matti Frost will to, but he hardly ever posts here. That's a shame because he is an excellent adversary, yet I consider him one of my best internet friends anyway.
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

Image
User avatar
Assistant Manager
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:59 am

Where do you work?:
Domino's Franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
Kia Soul
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:17 am
I don't have official statistics because, well, if they existed then the IRS wouldn't let tipped positions get away with only claiming 18k. However, I have never met a person who works a tipped job on a full time basis who didn't make well and above minimum wage. When I drove for Domino's in a podunk town in Maine where stiffers were more prevalent than not, there wasn't a single driver who wasn't able to hide 50%+ of his/her tips and still claim over minimum wage. I've had many friends who were waitresses, bartenders, drivers etc. They all have pretty much the same story. When they worked they made out pretty well per hour and claimed the minimum so they could pocket as much as possible. I fully understand that tipped positions can be very tough. If you don't claim everything, you don't officially make enough to qualify for loans, if you do, you get raped on taxes. Hours are often less than full-time, benefits are few if at all, and the hours are often the least conducive to a social/family life. No, you'll probably never see a tipped position on the top end of the mean wages charts, even if they were to claim every tip, but if you're smart about it, you can make a better living than your job title would imply and have the freedom of always having a bit of cash on you. The only way that the I can see the tipped positions being anywhere near accurate on that chart is if they also take into account the people who work just a few hours/days each week. Which is not an accurate measure on a chart like this. If you look at the top jobs, I can almost guarantee that they are all strictly full time, whereas a waiter or delivery driver might only work that position Fri/Sat evening as a supplementary income to their full-time gig which would skew the income numbers for those positions far lower than what their per hour income would be.
User avatar
Master Driver
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Where do you work?:
Papa John's franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
2010 Ford Fusion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:18 am
Distemper wrote:When I drove for Domino's in a podunk town in Maine where stiffers were more prevalent than not, there wasn't a single driver who wasn't able to hide 50%+ of his/her tips and still claim over minimum wage.


Factor in unreimbursed vehicle, uniform and other business expenses, and I think you'd find quite a different story.

Don't believe me? Then what are all of these people complaining about, and getting settlements over?
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

Image
User avatar
Assistant Manager
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:59 am

Where do you work?:
Domino's Franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
Kia Soul
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:47 am
The table of wages assumes that the employer is paying the employee according to all of the pertinent laws. The fact that these people are suing their employers means that there is at least a reasonable case to be argued that their employers are not compensating them according to the law. I also would not include MR when figuring the annual wage, simply because it isn't a wage, it's not taxable. In the same way that my clothing allowance wasn't taxable wage, it was compensation for the uniforms that I would buy and wear out over the course of the year. So with that being the case, if you wanted to figure the annual wage for a driver, you would have to ignore vehicle expenses and assume that the employer is compensating them for those expenses.

Personally, and this is just me, I don't factor vehicle expenses that I would have whether or not I was delivering. I have a brand new car. I bought it 3 months ago and just recently decided to start driving again. I would have that car payment, registration fee and insurance bill whether or not I chose to drive or go bag groceries at the commissary. I will include my fuel, oil changes and other maintenance into whether or not I feel fairly compensated.

The only way for that list to fairly represent tipped workers, would be to only include those people who work at or at least close to full time, for an employer who follows all laws applicable. If an employer doesn't follow the law, then what those people are doing is exactly what needs to happen. Those employers need to be held accountable and those employees shouldn't be considered in a chart that represents the industry until they are.

Here are my calculations. I will use the waiters and waitresses figure as that seems to be the closest comparison to delivery driver. At $18570 they are making 9.29/hr over a 40hr work week, assuming 2 weeks off per year. Even when things were at their worst at my old job where I worked almost exclusively day shift and the local economy was tanking, I was still making more than $9.29/hr unofficially. That's not including MR because I only cared if I got enough to pay for my gas to, from and at work. Beyond that I can't honestly say if my maintenance costs were due to delivering pizza or beating the absolute crap out of my car at the racetrack on the weekends. I was making $5.25/hr with no sort of dual pay rate even though I was only on the road for half the time. I will admit that I did not get full time hours. I would come in at 10:30 to open, work the lunch "rush" then they would cut me out from 2-4:30 usually. I would come back and if there was enough work, then I would work until 7. If not, then I would be the first let go early because I was the one that had been there the longest. So I would usually end up with 25 or so hrs a week. I can with a straight face and a clear conscience, claim that I made 16k over the course of my first year, even with less than full time hours. If I were to extrapolate my hourly pay over the remaining 15hrs/week, I would have made around 20k even if I assume absolutely no tips because of lack of business.

I fully understand that these figures only represent me and my experience, but like I said earlier. I don't know anyone who has worked a tip job and not made more than their diploma would allow them elsewhere.

I have my interview tomorrow, I'm fully assuming the position is mine based on my experience, clean license, base access (the base is a major part of their business), reasonably decent people/interviewing skills, and that my short conversation with the GM the other day was very positive. I will absolutely be taking things more seriously this time around as far as MR, MW etc are concerned. This time around I have to make sure that things are the best they can be for my family. I plan to claim all my tips so that I have accurate proof of income for future loans etc. Also, I would be more than happy to periodically post my income numbers here. I am more than willing to eat crow on this. I just believe that this chart assumes too much about too many variables regarding a tipped position.
User avatar
Master Driver
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Where do you work?:
Papa John's franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
2010 Ford Fusion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:35 am
Distemper wrote:The table of wages assumes that the employer is paying the employee according to all of the pertinent laws.


No, it doesn't.

These estimates are calculated with data collected from employers in all industry sectors in metropolitan and nonmetropolitan areas in every State and the District of Columbia.


No mention or assumption of them being lawful, but simply being 'collected'.

Distemper wrote:The fact that these people are suing their employers means that there is at least a reasonable case to be argued that their employers are not compensating them according to the law.


And many of the cases have already been settled. While settlement usually is not an admission of guilt, it also usually implies that paying out damages is cheaper than proving you were in the right.

Distemper wrote: I also would not include MR when figuring the annual wage, simply because it isn't a wage, it's not taxable.


That's correct.

Distemper wrote:In the same way that my clothing allowance wasn't taxable wage, it was compensation for the uniforms that I would buy and wear out over the course of the year


Most delivery drivers are NOT reimbursed for their uniforms even though by the FLSA minimum wage law, they should be.

Distemper wrote: if you wanted to figure the annual wage for a driver, you would have to ignore vehicle expenses and assume that the employer is compensating them for those expenses.


Why must you or anyone ASSUME drivers are being properly compensated? Overwhelming evidence shows that in many if not most cases nationwide and by numerous companies they are NOT!

Distemper wrote:The only way for that list to fairly represent tipped workers, would be to only include those people who work at or at least close to full time, for an employer who follows all laws applicable.


So workers that are being abused and ripped off should not be represented in official reports? :oops: :shock:

Distemper wrote:Those employers need to be held accountable and those employees shouldn't be considered in a chart that represents the industry until they are.


So employers that are being abusing and ripping off employees should not be represented in official reports? :oops: :shock:

Did you even read what you wrote before you posted it? :oops: :shock:

Distemper wrote:Personally, and this is just me, I don't factor vehicle expenses that I would have whether or not I was delivering. I have a brand new car. I bought it 3 months ago and just recently decided to start driving again. I would have that car payment, registration fee and insurance bill whether or not I chose to drive or go bag groceries at the commissary. I will include my fuel, oil changes and other maintenance into whether or not I feel fairly compensated.


Really? So since you are OK with abusing your vehicle and it's associated costs for the benefit of your employers business, the rest of us should ignore it too? Are you even aware that every mile you drive your vehicle has costs associated with it? Did you know that the FLSA minimum wage laws make it illegal for an employee to (even voluntarily) "kick back" money to their employer that would otherwise reduce their net wage below minimum wage?

Did you know that even if you argument was considered, that under even the slightest scrutiny it fails? Is your insurance the same price no matter how many miles you drive? NO!
Is your insurance the same price no matter if you deliver pizza? For most drivers: NO!
Is your car worth the same resale price after depreciation no matter how many miles you put on it: NO!
Do your tires, oil and more frequent maintenance cost the same if you put many more miles on your car? NO!

So why doesn't it cost more out of your pocket if you deliver pizza driving 100 miles a day above and beyond what you usually do? :oops: :shock: :o :shock:

I would go on, but I have already thoroughly destroyed your response IMHO.

Please address my objections in detail and/or educate yourself [url=Is your insurance the same price no matter if you deliver pizza? For most drivers: NO!]further[/url] before wasting my time and pathetic typing skills. :lol:

Don't get me wrong by the way.. I like you as a new poster and am greatly enjoying most of your posts... But IMHO, on this topic you are woefully uninformed.

If however you feel that after informing yourself that I am still at wrong, then, by ALL MEANS, please make every effort to correct me! I look forward to any and all challenges as they will make us ALL better as a whole I hope! :D 8-)
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

Image
Next

Return to Union and NLRB issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron