Cancelled order tip?


Closing Driver
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:41 pm

Where do you work?:
Papa John's
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
Toyota Camry
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:26 pm
I know that it's always belong to the driver, but here's an interesting situation that happened to me tonight. I took a delivery everything was cool, they gave me five points on the credit card receipt. I get back to the store, and the order got cancelled "in the name of customer service" and the manager is no longer able to add the tip part in, because the order is bad. What is the legality there?

Master Driver
Posts: 2619
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Wa
Where do you work?:
Formally employed by a Papa Johns Franchise in Washington state.
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
One with an internal combustion engine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:53 pm
tompace wrote:I know that it's always belong to the driver, but here's an interesting situation that happened to me tonight. I took a delivery everything was cool, they gave me five points on the credit card receipt. I get back to the store, and the order got cancelled "in the name of customer service" and the manager is no longer able to add the tip part in, because the order is bad. What is the legality there?

What??

My opinion, which I believe is justified by the law is that unless the customer specifically stated to you (I'll even go as far as to the manager) that you did not deserve or earned your tip, your employer may not dispose of your property, the tip. I have had this sort of thing happen before and I [b]DEMAND my employer pay me the tip that the customer had intended to give to me.[/b]
Don't expect others to fight your Battles

Closing Driver
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:41 pm

Where do you work?:
Papa John's
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
Toyota Camry
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:06 pm
I am inclined to agree but no one will admit to knowing how to do it in the PoS system and manager won't just hand me money and short the till. Gonna call up and ask if there is a way to do it.

Master Driver
Posts: 2619
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Wa
Where do you work?:
Formally employed by a Papa Johns Franchise in Washington state.
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
One with an internal combustion engine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:19 pm
tompace wrote:I am inclined to agree but no one will admit to knowing how to do it in the PoS system and manager won't just hand me money and short the till. Gonna call up and ask if there is a way to do it.

They most likely cannot do it in the POS. When I said I DEMAND... I meant I demand that they pay me out of the store cash. And they DO pay it ouf of the store cash because they know that I know what the law is and it's cheaper for them to pay me then to fight me, DOL, or the cost of arbitration.

What you manager did, effectively, was deny you the gratuity, which is your sole property. This could also be construed as theft. I do not steal from my employer I do not allow my employer to steal from me.
Don't expect others to fight your Battles

Closing Driver
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:41 pm

Where do you work?:
Papa John's
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
Toyota Camry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:04 am
Again, don't disagree with what you're saying...just questioning what the law says or doesn't say...I know law says tips are ours...and I'm inclined to believe it is considered ours from the moment the customer writes it on the slip...but has a precedent been set for that? I mean if something happens to the driver on the way back to the store (robbery, accident, etc) and they are, for whatever reason, unable to enter the tip before the end of day processes, the case could be made either way...that's what I'm asking for clarification on, if the law has weighed in on when the tip becomes property of the driver.

Master Driver
Posts: 2619
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Wa
Where do you work?:
Formally employed by a Papa Johns Franchise in Washington state.
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
One with an internal combustion engine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:32 am
tompace wrote:Again, don't disagree with what you're saying...just questioning what the law says or doesn't say...I know law says tips are ours...and I'm inclined to believe it is considered ours from the moment the customer writes it on the slip...but has a precedent been set for that? I mean if something happens to the driver on the way back to the store (robbery, accident, etc) and they are, for whatever reason, unable to enter the tip before the end of day processes, the case could be made either way...that's what I'm asking for clarification on, if the law has weighed in on when the tip becomes property of the driver.

I cannot tell you whether a court of law has specifically ruled on situation such as you are describing. What I can, and will, tell you is that if you choose to let this slide, then you are giving up any right you may have had to your property, and giving your employer the right, or a perceived right, to steal from you. Since the FLSA states, as a matter of law, that the gratuity is the sole property of the tipped employee, any action taken by your employer in regards to your property, without your explicit consent or allowable under the law (tip credit and/or tip pool), should be considered illegal.

Your employer may dispose of their own property, that portion of the bill that is not your gratuity. Your employer may not dispose of your property, which is what they did when they decided for you that you would refund your gratuity. Your employer is only acting as a facilitator, in regards to the gratuity, and at no time does your employer becomes the owner of your property.

I hope that explains my stance succinctly and equivocally.

Edit: damn.. I keep coming back to edit this.. because I cannot put enough emphasis on what I just said, but I don't want to come off as over the top.

Edit 2: I hope everyone here reads these above words and digests them to the fullest of their ability.
Don't expect others to fight your Battles
User avatar
Master Driver
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Where do you work?:
Papa John's franchise
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
2010 Ford Fusion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:50 am
Elric is 100% correct on this one. I have had this very thing happen to me twice, and each time I demanded and received my tip out of the stores cash on hand. Just as with Elric, they know that I know the law and will not even bother to question me over a matter of a few dollars.

I suggest that you politely yet firmly stand up for yourself and ask for the tip that is rightfully yours, and if they resist, let them know that you will be contacting the DOL and inquiring about the incident, and whose name you should give as your manager or supervisor for the paperwork.

In the meantime read this:

READ THIS FIRST! Fact Sheet #15: Tipped Employees -FLSA

And have this printed out to bring to work with you.
"If you ain't on the road, you ain't makin' money!" - gregster

Image

Master Driver
Posts: 2619
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Wa
Where do you work?:
Formally employed by a Papa Johns Franchise in Washington state.
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
One with an internal combustion engine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:35 am
gregster wrote:Elric is 100% correct on this one. I have had this very thing happen to me twice, and each time I demanded and received my tip out of the stores cash on hand. Just as with Elric, they know that I know the law and will not even bother to question me over a matter of a few dollars.

I suggest that you politely yet firmly stand up for yourself and ask for the tip that is rightfully yours, and if they resist, let them know that you will be contacting the DOL and inquiring about the incident, and whose name you should give as your manager or supervisor for the paperwork.

In the meantime read this:

READ THIS FIRST! Fact Sheet #15: Tipped Employees -FLSA

And have this printed out to bring to work with you.

Ahhh... yes.. that thing I was referring to a the last few days....In Oregon Restaurant and Lodging Ass'n et al. v. Solis
Don't expect others to fight your Battles

Closing Driver
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:41 pm

Where do you work?:
Papa John's
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
Toyota Camry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:05 am
I just wanna say first off that I did understand your position elric...i said that early on and also said that I personally agreed...but just wanted clarification of what the law says, if anything, about this specific incidence

Master Driver
Posts: 2619
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Wa
Where do you work?:
Formally employed by a Papa Johns Franchise in Washington state.
User Type:
Pizza Delivery Driver
Car you drive:
One with an internal combustion engine
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:33 pm
tompace wrote:I just wanna say first off that I did understand your position elric...i said that early on and also said that I personally agreed...but just wanted clarification of what the law says, if anything, about this specific incidence

No worries tom, even though you agree, I sometimes want, feel the need, to further clarify what I mean and where I stand on a particular issue. Especially on a subject such as this, one which I have some personal knowledge of.

Now, if you want to through a wrench into the discussion ask who the tip belongs to, and when does it become your property, when you were unable to complete the delivery, due to the customer's or your employer's negligence, and your employer decides to cancel the order on a pre-authorized credit card gratuity. You'll find that a few of us have different opinions on that specific scenario.
Don't expect others to fight your Battles
Next

Return to Tips and Taxes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron